My visitor right this moment is Tania de Jong, co-founder of Thoughts Medication Australia. Tania and her husband, Peter, helped lead the push that, in 2023, made Australia the primary nation on this planet to permit MDMA and psilocybin to be prescribed for psychiatric situations. I needed to know how the hell they helped make that occur and what the remainder of the world can study from it.
Please take pleasure in!
This episode is dropped at you by:
- ProLon science-backed Fasting Mimicking Food plan that helps activate mobile renewal via fasting, whilst you nonetheless eat nourishing meals
- Momentous high-quality creatine for cognitive and muscular assist
- AG1 all-in-one dietary complement
Methods to Legalize Medical Psychedelics in Your Nation — Tania de Jong on The Playbook Behind Australia’s World-First Breakthrough
Further podcast platforms
Hearken to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or in your favourite podcast platform.
Transcripts
Present Notes
Join with Tania
Web site | LinkedIn | Thoughts Medication Australia
Timeline:
- February 2, 2015: Michael Pollan publishes “The Journey Remedy” in The New Yorker, which is the article Tania credit with setting her journey in movement.
- March 21, 2015: Tim releases his James Fadiman interview, “The Psychedelic Explorer’s Information” (#66). Its present notes hyperlink to “The Journey Remedy.”
- January 15, 2016: Tim publicizes assist for Johns Hopkins’ psilocybin analysis and a private dedication of no less than $100,000 towards psychedelic analysis that yr.
- 2016: Tania and Peter journey to the Netherlands for his or her first guided psilocybin expertise. (Supply)
- 2017–2019: UCSF conducts the psilocybin-assisted group-therapy research involving long-term AIDS survivors that Tim helped assist. (Supply)
- Could 6, 2018: Michael Pollan joins Tim for “Exploring the New Science of Psychedelics” (#313), discussing his forthcoming e-book (Methods to Change Your Thoughts).
- Could 15, 2018: Pollan’s Methods to Change Your Thoughts is revealed.
- February 13, 2019: Tania and Peter publicly launch Thoughts Medication Australia. (Supply)
- 2020–2022: MMA applies to reschedule MDMA and psilocybin, faces rejection, and submits new purposes in March 2022. (Supply)
- November 21, 2022: David Nutt presents to Australia’s medicines regulator, the TGA, supporting the case for therapeutic entry. (Supply)
- February 3, 2023: The TGA publicizes restricted prescribing entry to MDMA for PTSD and psilocybin for treatment-resistant despair, efficient July 1, 2023. (Supply)
- January 2024: Sufferers start receiving remedy below the brand new prescribing program. (Supply)
Books
Associated Studying, Listening, and Viewing
Organizations and Sources
Individuals Talked about
Timestamps
[00:00:00] Intro from Tim.
[00:02:46] The article that modified Tania’s life.
[00:04:39] A primary psychedelic expertise—and the yr it took to combine it.
[00:10:17] Rick Doblin’s encouragement and the start of Thoughts Medication Australia.
[00:13:15] Turning regulatory rejection right into a stronger utility.
[00:20:48] Constructing a grassroots motion and coaching clinicians.
[00:23:23] Chilly emails, scientific allies, and singing your approach into the room.
[00:31:11] Every week with Ram Dass: silence, singing, and a unprecedented LSD story.
[00:37:54] Bringing David Nutt—and a household’s devastating story—to the regulators.
[00:42:42] Dancing within the kitchen: Australia’s rescheduling breakthrough.
[00:43:40] From altering the principles to treating sufferers.
[00:48:18] Why Tim thinks MDMA remains to be underestimated.
[00:50:23] Integration past the session: remedy, diet, and train.
[00:52:29] Scaling entry and amassing real-world proof.
[00:58:13] Getting insurers, authorities companies, and philanthropists on board.
[01:01:39] Syrian rue, psilocybin, and studying to let go of management.
[01:10:01] Dosing, expectations, and the stress to take extra.
[01:12:02] The promise of group remedy and shared integration.
[01:14:22] Hiring errors, private assaults, and the resilience advocacy requires.
[01:23:38] Turning a window of develop into lasting habits.
[01:25:51] Getting via to regulators and pushing for end-of-life entry.
[01:28:27] The bureaucratic limitations that stay.
[01:31:38] What remedy prices—and why therapist time drives the invoice.
[01:35:07] May shorter-acting compounds make remedy extra inexpensive?
[01:38:46] Ketamine, kratom, and the bounds of “all pure.”
[01:43:14] The surprising payoff from Tim’s ketamine experiment.
[01:47:46] What would possibly come subsequent for psychedelic entry worldwide?
[01:49:04] Persistence versus pushiness—and understanding when to strive one other door.
[01:54:22] Supporting sufferers and coaching the following wave of clinicians.
[01:57:51] “Be curious”: exploring your interior world and strolling one another dwelling.
[02:01:35] The ripple results of sharing your curiosity—and easily asking for assist.
Quotations from This Episode
“Be curious.”
— Tania de Jong
“I by no means noticed a single piece of nature the identical since that [first high-dose psilocybin session]. So each seashell, cloud, leaf, blade of grass—simply every part was remodeled by that have, and I may see the power in every part.”
— Tania de Jong
“We wish individuals to have significant lives. We wish them to really feel wholesome. We wish them to have the ability to see the sacred in every part.”
— Tania de Jong
“While you’re making an attempt to alter the legislation, you want individuals round you which might be very sturdy and who’re resilient as a result of we acquired knocked down again and again.”
— Tania de Jong
“Anybody who’s a pioneer who’s making an attempt to drive change goes to be attacked.”
— Tania de Jong
“All of us should grow to be our personal chief medical officers. We have now to work out what’s going to work for us, what’s going to make us complete and healed in order that we will reside our greatest lives attainable.”
— Tania de Jong
“One of many nice issues I realized was to by no means let anybody snatch your desires away.”
— Tania de Jong
“Let’s simply hold asking questions and never outsourcing ourselves to all the chatbots and all the robots.”
— Tania de Jong
Need to hear one other episode with somebody who spent many years turning a stigmatized medication into permitted remedy? Hearken to my dialog with MAPS founder Rick Doblin, through which we mentioned the founding of MAPS, MDMA’s unlikely path from the lab into the remedy room, Sasha Shulgin, the distinction between MDMA and MDA, MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, treating veterans and first responders, what it price to champion psychedelics lengthy earlier than the mainstream caught on, the struggle to reschedule MDMA, a shock $10M problem, and way more.
This episode is dropped at you by AG1. I’ve taken AG1 for greater than a decade. Longtime listeners have heard me name it my dietary insurance coverage. Right here’s the information: they just lately launched AG1 Professional, designed for individuals targeted on efficiency and longevity. I’ll be touring quickly, and I’m throwing this in my bag to cowl my bases whereas I journey. Previous a sure age, sustaining lean muscle turns into precedence primary, and AG1 Professional is formulated to assist precisely that. It contains HMB, a clinically studied compound that helps protein synthesis and helps scale back protein breakdown, plus zinc carnosine to assist the intestine lining. Keep in mind: coaching is simply half the equation. Restoration is the place the work compounds, and AG1 Professional is constructed to assist it. It’s NSF Licensed for Sport, so what’s on the label is what’s within the pouch. Get your free AG1 Professional Yeti Shaker within the Welcome Package at Drinkag1.com/Tim.
This episode is dropped at you by Momentous Creatine! I’ve used Momentous Creatine for a very long time, because it’s been one of many highest-quality creatine choices out there. Now, Momentous has taken that high quality even additional with Signature Spec Creatine, their most superior model but. Signature Spec is manufactured in a pharmaceutical facility utilizing reverse-osmosis water purification. It’s verified via a six-stage testing course of with 4 unbiased companies—delivering 10x fewer impurities, 2–5x tighter heavy-metal limits, and added PFAS and microplastics screening.
The ultrafine powder additionally mixes cleanly, with no grit. Creatine helps power, energy, lean muscle, and restoration, with rising analysis on enhanced reminiscence and cognitive efficiency. Head to LiveMomentous.com/Tim and use code TIM for 14% off your first one-time order or a complete of 35% off your first subscription order.
This episode is dropped at you purchase ProLon! One title that has come up on this podcast greater than as soon as is Dr. Valter Longo, a USC professor with many years of peer-reviewed analysis on fasting, diet, and growing older. I usually quick and have completed a variety of experiments with fasting over greater than a decade, and it has been one of the unbelievable unlocks that I’ve discovered for each near- and long-term bodily and psychological well being.
However fasting might be actually onerous, and that’s the reason Dr. Longo, greatest recognized for the Fasting Mimicking Food plan (FMD), developed ProLon. For five days, you’re in a position to get the advantages of fasting—together with autophagy, your physique’s mobile, self cleanup course of—all whereas consuming actual, structured, plant-based meals. In scientific research, 5-day cycles of the Fasting Mimicking Food plan improved markers tied to metabolic well being and organic growing older and helped individuals drop fats whereas holding onto lean muscle. And ProLon makes it simple: it is available in one field, every part is clearly laid out, and there’s no guesswork. For a restricted time, Prolon is providing my listeners 15% off sitewide, plus a $40 bonus present if you subscribe to their 5-day program. Simply go to ProLonLife.com/Tim.
