00:00 Finish of 12 months Assessment
02:51 Excessive–low studying defined
03:59 Finest day vs the worst day of the yr
14:03 Experiments that labored (and didn’t
28:06 Life exterior of labor: highs & lows
38:43 Highs you are anticipating & lows to keep away from in 2026
46:20 Reflection questions you need to use too
Helen Tupper: Hello, I am Helen.
Sarah Ellis: And I am Sarah.
Helen Tupper: And that is the Squiggly Careers podcast, the place each week we borrow some brilliance and relate it to you in your position and in your profession, to provide you some concepts, some insights, some issues you could take motion with, to spend money on your growth. And at present is a little bit of a particular episode. I feel. That is one which we have completed for the previous few years. It is the place Sarah and I do a little bit of a yr in assessment and we use some inquiries to assist our reflections, questions that we predict are helpful for everyone. However to carry these inquiries to life, we are going to, we are going to discuss them by means of. We’ll do our yr in assessment with you. And our focus for this yr assessment goes to be on excessive, low studying. So we have a number of totally different questions. We’ll share our solutions. So I feel in case you are a fan and a follower of Squiggly Careers, you are in all probability going to get to listen to a number of the stuff behind the scenes.
Sarah Ellis: Behind the scenes, Squiggly behind the scenes. For higher, for worse.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, you are going to get the true factor. However I feel should you’re not a fan, don’t be concerned. There are a number of questions right here that we might recommend that you simply both replicate or for your self in your yr or ideally, you do that with another person, you do it in a group, you do it with a little bit of a studying buddy. I feel it sort of simply creates a nicer studying setting if you need to use these questions with different folks. However it may be chatty, bit casual. Sarah and I’ve not shared our solutions with one another. I’ve obtained a cup of tea. Sarah’s in a room the place there is a actually loud man speaking exterior. So, you recognize, it is.
Sarah Ellis: And she or he’s too scared to go and say, are you able to please discuss quieter?
Helen Tupper: I imply, you possibly can’t. Actually impolite.
Sarah Ellis: You may’t. You may’t be like, I am recording a podcast.
Helen Tupper: I really feel like you possibly can’t. We simply.
Sarah Ellis: I do know such. Additionally that makes you sound like sir. A deep.
Helen Tupper: It would not it?
Sarah Ellis: , similar to you do. You do realise I’ve a podcast.
Helen Tupper: I am recording a podcast. So it may be casual, everyone. And we are going to put these questions within the pod sheet, which you may get from our web site, amazingif.com Afterwards, if you wish to use them to replicate your self, use them with a group. However yeah, I feel that is. Seize a cup of tea, sit and pay attention with us and listen to some behind the scenes stuff from the World of squiggly careers.
Sarah Ellis: And so the way in which that we body at present is excessive, low studying. So for each query that we have give you, we’re sort of going to distinction one thing that is gone effectively that we’d need to do once more or sort of do extra of as a result of we do not need to neglect these. It is very important take into consideration, like, what, what’s been the good things after which additionally a low as a result of I feel they’re funnier. Once I was writing mine down, truly, I used to be like laughing to myself, I.
Helen Tupper: Can’T wait to listen to them.
Sarah Ellis: However I additionally assume you be taught as a lot out of your lows as you do out of your highs. I used to be reflecting. I do not assume it means the lows go away as a result of I feel you simply get new lows. However I. It has made me assume a bit about actions and like what you would possibly do in another way. Given these are your lows. Like, what have they got in widespread? What’s helped you thru these lows? I feel that is in all probability the sort of theme that got here up for me was like once I checked out all my lows, I used to be like, there are a couple of widespread actions that basically helped me by means of these arduous moments. And I feel being conscious of these can simply allow you to if you, when you have got these low moments. So ought to I ask the primary query? Helen, are you prepared?
Helen Tupper: Sure, I am prepared. Prepared.
Sarah Ellis: Okay. So first. Hello. Le studying. So, hello. What was your greatest day of the yr? Low. What was a day that you simply have been actually glad to go away behind?
Helen Tupper: Okay, my. I can not wait to listen to yours. I am excited. So my greatest day of the yr was you and me collectively in Dorset. Is it the identical as you?
Sarah Ellis: In a village corridor? In a village corridor, sure. Say what? Oh, we’re as one. Which truly is sort of uncommon.
Helen Tupper: We should always in all probability clarify that to everyone. So we are likely to take a few days out in like the center of the yr for no matter massive challenge we’re engaged on, which in the meanwhile and for lots of this yr has been our new ebook, Be taught like a Lobster. And we go someplace totally different to our on a regular basis as a result of it simply helps us with our pondering. So we’re in Dorset and we could not discover a assembly room as a result of there aren’t that many co working areas on.
Sarah Ellis: On the coast of Dorset within the uk.
Helen Tupper: So Sarah had a little bit of a brainwave which was to take a look at village halls. And there was a tremendous village corridor in Sudland, I feel this big area. And we took over. I imply it value like, did it value us like £30 or one thing?
Sarah Ellis: I’d say prime tip. AI discovered that area for me. So I did use. I used to be like, oh, I am simply going to make use of Claude, clearly my favorite AI for individuals who’ve lengthy gone listeners, me and Claude, my new greatest good friend. I may. At what level may Claude change Helen? I may simply dialog with Claude. However Claude discovered that village corridor and it was like, what about utilizing this village corridor? It value like £25. And I used to be like, positive, why not? And it was simply. I imply, it was a, like large area, wasn’t it? It was simply the 2 of us.
Helen Tupper: With these yellow posts and there was.
Sarah Ellis: A lot more room.
Helen Tupper: It was sensible.
Sarah Ellis: It was sensible. I feel it was additionally simply precisely what we would have liked. Like we may transfer round, it obtained numerous pure gentle, we may take breaks actually simply. And I feel the rationale I picked it, in addition to my excessive, was not simply the day, however I feel we made an actual dedication to guarantee that that day mattered past the day. So we’re typically fairly good after we’re collectively. What we’re much less good at is sort of what comes subsequent. And I feel that’s our greatest ever. We adopted up on these actions, we’ve got made these concepts that we got here up with on that day occur. So the rationale I truly selected it because the excessive was as a lot as I loved that day and I did, that is like, I simply. If I may try this extra typically, I positively would. I then discovered my notes the opposite week once I was like clearing some stuff out from that village corridor day and I used to be like, oh, we have completed that. And we did that motion and we made that occur and that labored and that did not.
Helen Tupper: However.
Sarah Ellis: However these concepts mattered. They’ve like made a distinction. So I feel that was why it was my excessive. It was sort of what got here subsequent.
Helen Tupper: I feel mine each as a result of it was pleasurable, but in addition I feel that’s you and me at our greatest. So Sarah will arise. It is like actually bizarre. We simply have this manner of doing it. Sarah will arise with, submit it. And the minute we’ve got an concept, Sarah will sort of put it down on paper and put it on a wall. And it is actually good as a result of it is form of low dedication, low perfection. And Sarah’s very, very fast at producing the thought, placing it up. So that you very, in a short time get this capacity to see numerous concepts in a single place. After which I’m fairly good. I’ll actually sit in a chair and I’m superb at then, like, all of the concepts and sort of like making sense of them. I am like, hold on a minute. That one over there’s in all probability higher with, there’s one thing that occurs in my mind, however it will possibly’t occur until I’ve a quantity of stuff that I see. And so this, I do not know, there’s simply this match between yours and my brains in that second that works very well. And I all the time. And we do not do it that always simply due to the, you recognize, the way in which that we run our enterprise and the calls for on our time. However I simply adore it when it occurs as a result of that is the place the good things, that’s the place the very best stuff is available in our enterprise.
Sarah Ellis: And clearly, you recognize, my associate as a result of we, you and I’ve labored collectively for a very long time and identified one another for a very long time and I have been with my associate for a very long time. And wasn’t this the one time ever that he despatched you a WhatsApp message?
Helen Tupper: Yeah, he did, yeah. Tom would not message me fairly often. I do not assume he messages you that always. He despatched me a message and one thing alongside the strains of, I feel you might need damaged Sarah as a result of there was simply this image of like submit it notes and teacups and issues like throughout your own home that I feel you have been so immersed in your pondering for today that your precise house life had taken a little bit of a success.
Sarah Ellis: I feel it was our bed room, so our bed room was lined with. So I put together for these days in a really totally different approach to Helen. Like, if I haven’t got the time and area to replicate on my own first, I form of cannot do what we have to do after we’re collectively. And I truly do not want Helen to try this. And she or he would not want to try this. She will simply form of flip up and be within the second. However I actually assume issues by means of and I like to attach dots in my very own mind first. However the issue was that was in the place we sleep and our complete wall and all of our mirrors have been all lined in these large yellow submit it. I did not know. However yeah, he simply despatched a message to you being like. I feel he stated one thing like, it is both the work of a genius or a psychopath. So I used to be like. At that time, he was like, I’ve misplaced her, I’ve misplaced her. What a couple of low? A low that you simply want to go away behind?
Helen Tupper: I used to be pondering I went by means of my cellphone to form of set off me for the yr, you recognize, to keep away from like the entire recency bias factor. After which I remembered, I used to be like, oh, that was a foul. So I went on a piece journey to Lisbon. Nicely, it was, it was with the ey successful ladies. Do you keep in mind? And I obtained a bug. And it was on my first day. It was like a 3 day work journey and I obtained a bug. And, you recognize, we do not want to enter that, will we? However I. I couldn’t go away my room for twenty-four hours and I am probably not very. I am not in poor health fairly often and I do not like.
Sarah Ellis: So sorry for you.
Helen Tupper: And I might gone that method for that. , that is an annual occasion of three days for these ladies. It is such an excellent occasion. I principally simply stayed in my room in a very nice. I additionally actually keep in mind the gown as a result of I am all the time actually acutely aware, like, I need to look good at these occasions. And I might obtained this very nice gown and I simply lay in my mattress for like 24 hours as a result of I could not even get. I could not even get my good gown off. Yeah, it was not a pleasant second. Yeah, it was fairly bleak. What about yours?
Sarah Ellis: Mine was. Do you keep in mind Windy wi Fi time?
Helen Tupper: Windy wi fi.
Sarah Ellis: So when it obtained. Yeah, so when there was. There have been storms and it was actually windy and that wind principally broke my Web. Do you not keep in mind? Since you helped me get a resort.
Helen Tupper: How did you keep in mind? Oh, yeah, did not I uncover a resort close to you? You have been like, oh, I did not realise that resort was there. Yeah.
Sarah Ellis: So I feel it was simply, you recognize, it was actually annoying since you did not understand it was coming. And our work actually depends on, like everyone having the Web. However I feel after we’re doing workshops for large teams, they’re massive moments that matter. Folks have put a number of effort into them. In case your Web breaks, it is a reasonably large deal. And I simply assume the quantity of adapting I then needed to do in like 24 hours from. I ended up in a single co working area fairly close to, fairly close to the place I stay, however not that close to the place. I do not assume this man, I do not assume he’d welcomed anybody to this workplace area in a very long time. And in addition everybody there was male.
Helen Tupper: After which they have been similar to, oh.
Sarah Ellis: And I felt like they have been simply me by means of this, like, glass door being like, who is that this? She’s attention-grabbing. And he knocked on the door in the midst of a session that I used to be delivering for Lego to ask me if I wished a digestive biscuit.
Helen Tupper: That could be very candy. I imply, it is fairly irritating if you’re attempting to ship a Workshop. However it’s very.
Sarah Ellis: It is a very.
Helen Tupper: It was.
Sarah Ellis: And he was like, can I make you a cup of tea? And I used to be like, I am actually delivering a workshop for tons of of individuals. Please do not discuss to me. And, you recognize, you similar to, it is simply. And he was. He was. He was so good and so intrigued by me. So I did that for one of many windy wi fi days. After which that evening I used to be actually panicking and I used to be like, proper, what can I do? After which, yeah, you and I have been re. I feel you discovered a resort. You have been like, this resort seems to be prefer it’s fairly close to you. And you then booked it. After which I turned up and also you informed them. So what we might completed was you’d booked a resort room for me. I then turned up the following day they usually have been like, oh, no, we have given it away. And I used to be like, however we put a notice to say we’re not going to be right here till the following day. And I simply stood my floor. I used to be like, you need to discover me a gathering room then. They usually have been simply form of me like, oh, however we have cancelled it now. I used to be like, yep, I get that. However you could have someplace that I can work.
Helen Tupper: I’ll sit in your workplace.
Sarah Ellis: Nicely, yeah, I imply, I’d have completely sat of their workplace in the event that they’d have given me that. If they’d have been like, do you need to simply come right here? I might be like, yeah, that is nice. However I used to be simply. I feel in our work, usually, there are generally these issues, like know-how or journey. I’ve had some journey issues this week the place you simply go, they may occur. You may’t cease them taking place. And, you recognize, I stated to you about, like, what do you be taught out of your lows? I feel it’s simply sharing quick that you have. You’ve got obtained a barrier or a roadblock so that folks can assist you. As a result of generally what you want is rather like, oh, that seems like a nightmare. You simply want that from folks. But in addition generally you simply, like, folks have quick fixes that perhaps you have not considered. , oh, what about this? Or have you considered this? And you are like, proper, okay, yeah, you truly simply want numerous concepts after which you possibly can simply discover them rapidly and see what’s most useful. So I feel simply not retaining it to your self. I feel beforehand my persona is definitely the extra confused and nervous I’m, the much less doubtless I’m to share one thing. I form of get a bit like, in my shell, however I’ve. I’ve virtually taught myself now. I simply by no means try this now. As quickly as one thing feels arduous, I am similar to, proper, principally, who can I inform? After which I am like, I by no means. You by no means fairly know, like, whether or not they’ll find a way that can assist you or not, however generally I feel simply sharing it with somebody.
Helen Tupper: So it is.
Sarah Ellis: It is form of a, you recognize, like an issue shared, it is an issue halved. That has helped me in multiple state of affairs this yr past Windy Wi Fi. However, yeah, I did not take pleasure in Windy Wi Fi Day. Sure. Ought to we do the following one?
Helen Tupper: Yeah. The place are we going?
Sarah Ellis: Let’s do experiments subsequent. So a excessive. An experiment that has labored effectively for you or for us, I suppose, and an experiment that has failed. So sort of a low, which we must always say. Clearly, the one experiments that fail are ones the place you fail to be taught. So truly there is not any low right here since you’re experimenting. However I do assume it’s actually useful to replicate on issues you have got tried out this yr, what you have got discovered, as a result of the experiments which have gone effectively, you clearly need to do extra of that. You sort of need to hold that momentum going and if it is failed, that is sort of nice. However what you do not need to do is like, lose. Lose the educational from that. I ponder if we have the identical one right here.
Helen Tupper: No, we will be prepared if.
Sarah Ellis: All of our totally different ones.
Helen Tupper: Positively, Deb. Completely different. So my experiment that labored have been my.
Sarah Ellis: Like, meetups, I do not know what else.
Helen Tupper: To name them, however the squiggly connections and conversations meetups. So I did one in Edinburgh, I did one in New York, and I used to be there for work causes in each of these locations. And I assumed, you recognize, while I am right here, I am gonna look who I do know, like in these areas. And I simply use LinkedIn. I actually went, as a result of I could not assume, who do I do know in Edinburgh? Who do I do know in New York? So I simply went on LinkedIn and I checked out who I used to be related to. So, like on LinkedIn you are able to do first, second and third, like diploma connections or one thing. So I used to be like, who am I truly related to? So first particular person connections, no matter that truly means on LinkedIn. After which you possibly can search by metropolis. So I did first Edinburgh, first New York. After which I actually went by means of all these folks and was like, hello. I simply messaged them. I used to be like, hello, I am in. Blah, blah, blah on this date.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, you are so good at doing that.
Helen Tupper: And in Edinburgh. I took barely totally different strategy. In Edinburgh I did numerous coffees they usually have been superb. Actually, actually, actually helpful. And in New York I did some coffees after which I additionally. It was very daunting. I used to be like, experimented with like a correct meetup. I used to be like, I am gonna.
Sarah Ellis: I do know, you simply did like an occasion. I used to be like, the place are you? You have been like, I do not know. Actually some a part of New York.
Helen Tupper: I used to be like, I do not, I additionally do not actually know New York. So I used to be like, I do not know if this can be a good place or a foul place, however simply obtained a rooftop, obtained a few bottles of wine and a few non alcoholic drinks for different folks. And yeah, the bottles weren’t only for me, I ought to say that made it.
Sarah Ellis: Sound like I obtained a pair, I obtained a few bottles of wine simply to extend the boldness and really feel good.
Helen Tupper: Everyone clearly. And yeah, then I invited these folks and it was so, it was so good and it felt it was an experiment as a result of I did not know if folks have been gonna wanna come and I did not know in the event that they have been gonna flip up. And I may have simply been sat on a rooftop alone. And I used to be a bit nervous. I imply I obtained there earlier than it opened as a result of I used to be like, I must be the primary one right here.
Sarah Ellis: I keep in mind you sending me like WhatsApp messages.
Helen Tupper: So embarrassed.
Sarah Ellis: And I used to be like, I actually hope folks flip up.
Helen Tupper: So embarrassed. However it did work and it was fantastic. And I’ve truly. One of many folks that I met there’s truly gonna be on our podcast in February. So you understand how these issues can result in issues. I suppose is my courageous issues can result in issues. In order that was my experiment. That was a excessive. What about yours?
Sarah Ellis: No, you do your low. As a result of my excessive and my low are related. So it will make extra sense to do them collectively.
Helen Tupper: I am so intrigued. My low. You may snigger at this. You may be like, I am glad that failed. I do know you’ll. Was posting on daily basis on LinkedIn. So I went on a. I’d.
Sarah Ellis: By no means be glad that you simply stated, are you positive? What does that say about me?
Helen Tupper: I feel it is a good factor.
Sarah Ellis: In fact it means I haven’t got to love defriend you on LinkedIn. In order that’s fairly straightforward.
Helen Tupper: That is true. However it’s an attention-grabbing expertise. So I went on a course which was all about sort of constructing your LinkedIn profile. And I have already got. , LinkedIn’s already fairly an energetic.
Sarah Ellis: Superb LinkedIn profile.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I am already fairly energetic on there. However I do see it as a extremely great way that we will discover new folks with squiggly careers. So I need to. I need to spend money on. It is a actually great way for us to develop. And I used to be on this course and there was numerous recommendation and I adopted it. And this one of many issues, and there was many bits of recommendation, however one of many issues was posting on daily basis. And to be sincere, drive. There have been some advantages of it. So for like, forcing your self to submit on daily basis means you need to be fairly intentional about what you are sharing. So it in all probability made me a bit like once I used to do profession suggestions on daily basis on Instagram, it made me sort of go, oh, what’s new?
Sarah Ellis: What’s a little bit of a forcing operate.
Helen Tupper: It was an actual forcing operate for my curiosity and my creativity, truly. Like, how do I flip that factor I’ve learn into one thing that is helpful for any individual?
Sarah Ellis: I imply, a number of the belongings you managed to give you throughout that point, I used to be like, how has she created content material one pages?
Helen Tupper: And I used to be simply a lot stuff. And really a few of my most shared stuff got here from that point. So I feel, okay, not every part fails. No, not each. The truth is, on paper, it in all probability labored as an strategy that. For plenty of causes, however I feel it failed as a result of I did not keep on with it. And I feel what I’ve discovered is that I. Typically I feel you simply obtained to do stuff that is best for you. As a result of I may have actually beat myself up about that, you recognize, I did not. I used to be meant to submit on daily basis. That was what I dedicated to and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I simply did not. And I sort of have gone again to what I used to be doing earlier than, to be sincere, with perhaps a bit extra perception into issues. However I feel it is okay generally to strive one thing, you recognize, you would possibly take a look at somebody’s recommendation or take a look at what somebody’s doing and go, effectively, I’ve tried it, however that is not for me.
Sarah Ellis: So.
Helen Tupper: And to not really feel the strain of getting to indicate up in a method that different persons are or do one thing as a result of everybody’s saying, effectively, that is the brand new. That is the brand new cool factor to do. We should always all be doing it. I imply, honest sufficient, give it a go. But when it would not be just right for you, then let it go on the similar time. So it was, you recognize, it was a failure. However I feel I additionally sort of took a little bit of, perhaps a little bit of confidence from, you recognize, the Operating your individual race factor form of reaffirm that for me.
Sarah Ellis: Sure. And in addition, you recognize, there’s generally a distinction between what could be proper for an algorithm versus what could be best for you. And I am like, do you actually need to stay your life primarily based on algorithms?
Helen Tupper: As a result of?
Sarah Ellis: As a result of I do not. , and also you’re similar to. And I perceive that folks having that consciousness, they could be like, effectively, I must construct my profile on LinkedIn to assist my enterprise. But when I take into consideration all of the folks I observe on LinkedIn who I actually like, such as you, I feel they know the rules they usually’re sort of good about how they do it, however they’re additionally considerate and intentional. , if you consider somebody like Joe, Joe Glover, I all the time actually like his LinkedIn posts, however I do not really feel like I see one on daily basis. I really feel like he simply does them. I really feel like he is truly a really totally different form of particular person to you. I feel he is rather more introverted than you’ll be, however he is such as you. Like, he all the time posts in a method that seems like helpful however nonetheless private.
Helen Tupper: Sophie Devonshirt as effectively. Shout out to Sophie. He is a CEO of the Advertising and marketing Society. I feel she all the time posts. Yeah, she posts in a really considerate method.
Sarah Ellis: I like Sophie’s posts and really constant.
Helen Tupper: As a result of she’s all about sort of curiosity and connection. So there’s like that consistency. Yeah, yeah. I feel that is in all probability perception as effectively. Like with notably these issues, discover the individuals who you admire, however once more, you do not have to repeat them. However it’s attention-grabbing to sort of assume, effectively, what’s it that I like about what they do?
Sarah Ellis: Go on then.
Helen Tupper: I am selecting up the cup of tea. I need to hear these connectors.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah. I do not know the way a lot you are gonna. I do not know the way a lot you are gonna like.
Helen Tupper: No, you’ll.
Sarah Ellis: You’ll like this. I am prepared. So my form of experiments which have labored and failed, that are positively not simply mine, they’re positively ours, are literally all in regards to the podcast. So I really feel like we obtained to some extent with the podcast the place we felt actually caught and experiment actually helped us to re energise, get some momentum, get began, you recognize, not overthink. I feel we have been. We would obtained some questions that we have been struggling to reply and we have been positively going round in circles with the podcast. I feel I used to be annoying each of us for then totally different causes. You get positively like a. Nicely, simply flip up and do it, Sarah. Like Cease asking questions, flip up, report the podcast, stroll away. I get to. Nicely, I am simply going to cease it then, as a result of if that is our perspective, that is it. So I feel, you recognize, the, like, mother or father little one factor, I feel we each go in fairly totally different instructions there. And really it would not. Clearly it would not serve both of us. And in addition it implies that you simply do not take pleasure in it. Like, we have all the time loved the podcast. I feel Squiggly Careers got here from you and I connecting to speak about careers in a method that was helpful for us and we hoped was helpful for different folks. And I feel that is like, that’s us at our greatest. And so I feel after we form of stopped worrying about solutions and began simply going, okay, so what may we experiment with? How about this as a format? Or what would possibly this appear like? And let’s simply discover out. Do not put an excessive amount of strain on ourselves, you recognize, take away the entire strain to be good. And I keep in mind saying to you, what about simply doing Borrowed brilliance each week? Which may simply be a special approach to do issues? And also you have been like, yeah, okay, I can see how that will work. Examined it actually rapidly with a few folks, like, that day, after which we have simply completed it. And I feel when it comes to, like, folks listening could be, like, would not really feel that totally different.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, yeah.
Sarah Ellis: However I feel it is felt. And I’d get that. I am like, yeah. So each week you are simply speaking about one thing about careers and also you’re attempting to make it helpful. However I feel it has felt totally different for me. Such as you stated, it has ignited curiosity. It is given a special sort of method into conversations about careers. I hate the thought of being repetitive or doing issues that we have completed earlier than as a result of I really feel like that is not helpful. So I am all the time sort of naturally very vital of that. And with Borrowed Brilliance, I am like, oh, it feels new. It feels new once more. It feels attention-grabbing. In order that has been. It is virtually the place, like, experimenting, simply the act of experimenting has actually helped. Like, I am so satisfied that experimenting simply helps you progress ahead with a lot extra tempo and also you make extra progress. After which actually rapidly, you possibly can see, like, information. Does it work? Does it not? And a number of the information for us on that experiment was, how a lot are we having fun with it?
Helen Tupper: Yeah.
Sarah Ellis: And I’ve simply loved it a lot extra. I feel we have been doing it perhaps for, like, three months now.
Helen Tupper: Yeah.
Sarah Ellis: And, you recognize, like, the conversations have felt totally different.
Helen Tupper: I feel. I. Yeah. I imply, I may have continued how we have been, however I feel not with you, the way in which that you simply felt about it. So I feel for me, I used to be like, I’ve to discover a method for Sarah to re have interaction and need to do that as a result of I feel we have been. We have been at risk of like, stopping the podcast, which I did not need to do as a result of I like doing it and I feel numerous folks take heed to it. So I feel we simply wanted to discover a method that your mind discovered it. Enjoyable’s not the best phrase, however your, Your. Your mind was engaged in it once more. And I really feel like we have sort of cracked that. And now I prefer it extra as a result of now we get to speak about random issues like marshmallows and respiratory chairs. So I am like. So I am sort of engaged as a result of I like the randomness of it. And I feel for you, it simply feels extra inventive and related and attention-grabbing to do reasonably than simply sort of like, how do you run a one to 1? Which simply felt like we have been. Which I am not.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, we have completed that.
Helen Tupper: We have completed it.
Sarah Ellis: Do one to 1, however we have completed that. In order that’s been an excellent experiment. I feel the factor we have additionally been experimenting with then, like, easy methods to report and, you recognize, we now do it so that folks can watch it in addition to pay attention, which is ok. Like, I am nice that folks watch it. I’ve obtained previous the purpose of getting nervous about that. However definitely the logistics of our podcast, every part we’ve got experimented with, I’d say this yr, like, hasn’t. Hasn’t actually labored and it is felt irritating for us. It is positively felt irritating for our group. It is positively not enjoyable. It could be, I feel, prime of fairly a couple of folks’s listing of like, this creates issues and points and we simply have not fairly sorted out. It is virtually just like the behind the scenes of the way you make the podcast occur. So when we’ve got the conversations now, like, nice. However the entire different issues that always folks will not see that goes into making the podcast find yourself generally feeling actually arduous. Like, the schedule would not really feel very versatile. It would not really feel prefer it displays how we each work. If we do not do one as a result of one thing occurs, like we’re doing work with a associate swiftly or one in every of us is in poor health, it creates a complete cascade of challenges. We missed one the opposite week for some purpose. Oh, I messed one thing up and you are like. The quantity of challenges that create. It was like one Hour of one thing going flawed that created, like, an unimaginable quantity of labor. And, like, you recognize, similar to so many points, so many issues for one thing the place you have been like. And I am like. I take a look at that and assume, oh, I am virtually like, if you speak about, like, upset, I am all the time like, upset in myself, in us. I give myself a extremely arduous time for that. And in order that’s one the place I feel you have to settle for generally that experiments simply aren’t working. And what I’d have preferred to have completed sooner once I’ve thought of that is I do not assume we have known as it quick sufficient. So truly, I feel as a result of virtually the conversations are working higher, I feel we’ve got lived within the messiness of the logistics and people sort of issues, like not working, making our lives method more durable reasonably than simpler. And we have simply stored dwelling with it, you recognize, as a result of generally it’s simpler to stay with it than it’s to name it out. And really, I feel that is one of many issues that I need to get higher at subsequent yr is the quick flags, the place issues are feeling arduous or the place I am getting a niggle that I am like, this does not really feel prefer it’s working now. I feel it is then completely okay for then somebody to problem you again on it and say, we have not given it lengthy sufficient and that is nice, you recognize, like, you possibly can’t go too quickly. However I really feel like generally, since you and I’ve so many alternative issues that we do, having the capability to name it or to do the quick flag is definitely generally fairly arduous. And really, as a group, I would not say saying the arduous factor is sort of a pure talent that we’ve got as a group both. So typically saying the arduous factor does depend on us saying the arduous factor, as a result of our group are supportive they usually simply need to assist issues they usually simply need to make issues occur. They usually’re typically fairly like, within the second, how will we make the podcast occur for subsequent week? That is sort of the place to begin. And so I feel I need to do some new experiments with the sort of. With that. And we have already began eager about what which may appear like, which none of our listeners will notably care about, as a result of they will be like, effectively, simply give me the podcast each week.
Helen Tupper: It is a massive distinction, nevertheless it makes a number of distinction how folks really feel.
Sarah Ellis: It makes a distinction to us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In order that they have been my 2 now. I assumed it was useful to have a excessive and low from exterior of labor. I Will admit that I wrote this query. I do know. And my form of responsible admission right here is that I wrote these questions for Helen and I to speak about, despatched them to Helen after which about three days later added one the place I stated oh, in all probability we must always replicate that we’ve got a life exterior of labor. As a result of I hadn’t requested a single query that was about life exterior of labor. So a. Hello Helen. That was nothing to do with superb if and perhaps a low as effectively. Extra about sort of life exterior work.
Helen Tupper: The fact cheque. So my excessive exterior of labor has been renovation primarily based. So this has been a yr of. I imply an terrible lot of mess the place I stay however have completed numerous work at my home within the backyard and likewise in my workplace. It seems to be lovely in my workplace now, which isn’t sort of totally completed. However these are areas that for me they’re similar to, actually like actually essential to my psychological well being. I do know that sounds bizarre however like we spend a number of time in our workplace as a result of Sarah and I ship workshops all to all hours of the day, numerous corporations. I am, you recognize, like many people, I am. I am in an workplace rather a lot and so my area right here feels actually essential and so I really feel like I’ve made this good. I am actually excited to be in right here. After which additionally I stay within the countryside and I discover it very. I discovered it only a very grounding place so I could be busy, busy, busy. And you recognize, Sarah will typically say I am an extrovert and I’m however then I’ve this form of this excessive moments of introversion. So I am like, I am like 90 extrovert after which 10 excessive introvert. Once I simply need to be in like within the nation, within the backyard doing like very. I do not need to be with different folks, I simply need to be with my household. And I discover it actually, actually grounding. And so investing in these areas of my life this yr implies that I am ending the yr. I simply really feel actually glad, actually. I look exterior, I sit my workplace and I am like glad, actually glad. Oh, hi there.
Sarah Ellis: As effectively.
Helen Tupper: There’s all the time good actuality cheque. Milo is definitely fairly a. It is a. That is in all probability a bit recency bias one however I usually do not replicate for a very long time on Lowe’s. However my, my nanny who once more common listeners will know that I speak about my nanny on a regular basis and the brand new ebook, my dedication within the ebook is to nanny. She will’t be with me this yr for Christmas as a result of she’s 96 and she or he simply, you recognize, she simply cannot be with me. And it’s the first 96. She’s 96. She simply cannot be with me this yr. I’ll nonetheless go and see her. I am gonna see her twice over Christmas. I am very, very near her, nevertheless it’s the primary time in a very long time that she will not be spending Christmas with me and that. And it simply feels. It simply feels a bit of bit arduous. So it is a bit. It is a bit of bit unhappy, however it’s the actuality of life and she or he is probably the most superb lady and I nonetheless get to see her. So it is not unhappy, it is simply, you recognize, it is simply. It is simply life. It is simply life. Go on, what are yours?
Sarah Ellis: My excessive was a visit to Iceland. So me and Tom, my associate, and our little boy Max, we went to Iceland in July. And it was similar to the right combine of various issues to do. So we went to Reykjavik. I noticed whales. I like animals usually, however we went out onto the water and there was numerous whales. Once you’re like an exquisite sea one and you then see fairly a couple of and also you see several types of whales. And that was simply, I do not know, it was like magical. It was simply so thrilling. And I actually like Reykjavik as effectively. Our Airbnb was across the nook from a extremely cool espresso store. So I felt at house in a short time, aside from it’s simply so costly. I imply, London is dear, however then I do really feel like Iceland simply take it to a complete different degree. And so we might spent a while in Reykjavik, however then we additionally travelled round and we did all types of like, simply actually like enjoyable issues. Like we walked behind like an enormous waterfall, we went to love an ice cave and we went right into a lava tunnel. Anyway, it was all very naturey, fairly outside, outdoorsy, but in addition it was enjoyable for everybody. And my associate all the time says it’s best to purpose for a vacation the place it is like an eight or 9 out of ten for everybody. However that’s fairly a tough ask, I feel, if you’ve obtained an eight yr outdated after which you recognize us. And that vacation was rather more much like in all probability the vacations that we did pre having youngsters. So it is useful that our little boy’s a bit of bit older now. However we additionally managed to combine it up by going like zip lining, which is definitely very, very enjoyable. And a bit of mini bungee leap, which truly was so much much less enjoyable. I truly discovered that basically sc. Like, I will be nice. Like, I like all these sort of issues. However the bungee leap, there is sort of a second of weightlessness that I didn’t take pleasure in. I used to be like, oh, I am gonna die.
Helen Tupper: Once you query, you are like, why am I, why am I doing this?
Sarah Ellis: My life selections in that second. So, yeah, that was simply. Oh, it felt so totally different to issues that we have completed over the previous eight years. And once I say totally different, like in the principle, higher. In order that was, that was tremendous cool. The low was attention-grabbing. I did not have like a selected day or a selected week the place I used to be like, oh, that was a low. I feel my reflection is that as a result of our work is so full on, the factor that I nonetheless generally wrestle to handle is simply the, you recognize, being current in evenings and sort of weekends and form of switching off, just like the work mind. And I feel as a result of we additionally each do work from home, it is humorous, like, we’re out and about so much, however then we’re additionally such as you say additionally at house so much working simply that, you recognize, like, put your cellphone down, shut your laptop computer, truly discuss correctly to folks and, and never then simply sort of return to working. I do not really feel like this yr I’ve in all probability obtained my boundaries fairly proper. And he. And really my 8 yr outdated known as me on it the opposite day as a result of he sees, when he talks about like Google, he says what, he says like, are you able to analysis one thing for me, mum? And I used to be on my cellphone the opposite day and he was speaking to me and he was like, oh, what are you researching? And I used to be pondering, effectively, I am not researching something as a result of he thinks I ought to be researching for him and I am not. I used to be like doing a piece e mail or one thing. And his face, he is simply attending to the purpose the place he is a bit older and a bit extra conscious and you may think about what your position modelling can have a bit extra of a ripple impact. And I am not that good at placing my cellphone down and simply sort of strolling away or sort of stopping work and stuff. And so I feel simply one of many issues once I take into consideration subsequent yr is simply to determine what could be useful for that. As a result of often for me it is. I’m a giant fan of issues like behavior stacking. It is all the time actually helped me, like since I’ve discovered about that I’ve positively obtained higher at issues due to behavior stacking and it is silly stuff. Like I discovered I’ve obtained the place I put like my cellphone charger so I am not all the time nice at charging my cellphone. I am generally a bit messy, one would possibly say.
Helen Tupper: I do not assume that folks would know this about you, that you simply’re like a bit, I do not know, scatty’s not the best phrase, however you are like messy. However you lose stuff rather a lot.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah. I’ve purchased a number of pairs of headphones this yr greater than ever earlier than. So some years I like lose my playing cards rather a lot, however I by no means lose them, I misplace them and I all the time discover them once more. I imply, I can see three pairs of headphones from speaking to you. I’ve obtained some in after which some that I purchased final week truly with you after which some that I feel I purchased a few weeks in the past as a result of I can not ponder occurring stuff. I really feel like this is sort of a.
Helen Tupper: Little secret Sarah reality that folks, they will be like, Sarah’s so like calm and picked up and assured. I am like, yeah, she is all of these issues however she’s additionally simply actually messy and she or he simply forgets like stuff all over the place she leaves.
Sarah Ellis: And in addition the busier I’m, the messier I get as a result of I truly get very single minded. So even like at present when recording the podcast, you have been like, effectively, have you ever obtained headphones? And I used to be like, no, I’ve obtained headphones for my cellphone, however I have not obtained headphones. And really what. That is the genius of being messy. I then dug round in my bag simply to see and I used to be like, oh, have truly obtained some. Who is aware of how lengthy the cost will final? However truly it is lasted. So we’re sort of all good. So id and I do not assume that is good. I do not assume that is good for me. Like usually a bit of little bit of messiness is ok as a result of that is simply my precise persona, a lot to my associate’s misery. However I feel there’s like, I can see a tipping level and really I am positively in it proper now. Just like the pre Christmas messiness has reached new ranges to the extent the place my associate will not stroll in a room that I work in and still have all my stuff in. He is like, he is like, oh, I could not. He truly stated to me final evening, oh, have you learnt the place that is? Oh, however I could not. If it is within the examine. I could not face strolling in there. I could not face it. And I used to be.
Helen Tupper: Robust language that he used to.
Sarah Ellis: He used that language. I imply, it simply makes me Snigger a bit. However once more, that is not what I feel he is in search of. So I do, I do assume I form of need to create a little bit of a dedication to myself to simply sort of be like, proper, okay, how do I. As a result of work will not cease being busy. That is nice as a result of I adore it and I need, I need to be, I need to be doing all of the issues that we’re doing. However you recognize, like, figuring out it’s okay to place your cellphone down for 2 hours, like, figuring out it’s okay to love go away your laptop computer behind and, and likewise simply take into consideration like, am I listening to my associate or my son once they discuss to me? And I am positive it is like, it is a fixed calibration. Proper, for everybody. However I do not, I do not all the time assume I’ve obtained it proper. This yr I’ve completed a number of work although.
Helen Tupper: Nicely, that is a humorous consequence of that. Nicely, if you’ve mirrored on it, clearly, nonetheless I can assist, let me know. I’d say one, one factor, one factor is as you might be reflecting on it, I feel on that one, it is value eager about how a lot of the necessity to reply is actual versus, like ordinary. In order in truly if it is actual, then we must always put some guidelines in place that imply that sure messages do not come at sure instances or we modify folks’s expectations of responses. Whether it is behavior, then that is one thing sort of so that you can put these, you recognize, like, like, oh, I cost in a special place, all that sort of stuff. However I feel, and really I do.
Sarah Ellis: Assume, I do assume it is me. I truly do not assume, like, we do not. I’ve labored in groups the place being a sort of actual time responder truly did actually matter. , like that was the character of these roles. And no person at 8:30pm at evening goes, I want profession growth proper now. Like, no, nobody. And you recognize, like, it is not like our consumer. It is not like we have not, we do not have unreasonable shoppers. I haven’t got, it’s extremely uncommon that I’ve folks going, I want a proposal in 24 hours for studying. Like, no, it’s. These issues are fairly uncommon. And once more, if you’re messaging me, it’s extremely uncommon the place you are like, Sarah, you could must kind this. We have to like troubleshoot this on the subsequent hour. And so I truly assume the overwhelming majority of it’s me and sort of what you have obtained used to. So I feel, yeah, I feel it is me holding myself to account.
Helen Tupper: Ought to we do yet another.
Sarah Ellis: Ought to we speak about subsequent yr? Sure. Final one. So that is about, like, anticipating highs and lows. A excessive that you simply’re anticipating for subsequent yr and a low that you simply need to keep away from.
Helen Tupper: Okay. Okay. My excessive that I am anticipating. Nicely, there’s a lot to stay up for subsequent yr. I feel subsequent yr goes to be a really massive yr due to ebook launches and different stuff that we’re beginning. However I’m very particularly trying ahead to spending a while in America with you. And I feel there’s in all probability some stuff that is taking place that we won’t fairly discuss.
Sarah Ellis: About but as a result of it is almost.
Helen Tupper: Almost confirmed, however I feel it’s.
Sarah Ellis: There are some issues will not be that secret although, proper? Nicely, I do not imagine. Is it that secret?
Helen Tupper: Nicely, we’d like to verify a number of the bits come again.
Sarah Ellis: I like your teaser, although. I such as you like, let’s create some thriller round it.
Helen Tupper: Nicely, it is not like all positively confirmed, nevertheless it’s very shut. As soon as it is confirmed, it can occur. However there are some moments that I am actually trying ahead to doing with Sarah within the US that we’ve got by no means completed earlier than. And it is a bit like, it is a bit bucket listy for us. I imply, I imply, our bucket listing shouldn’t be everybody’s bucket listing, however like, you recognize, like, do the TED Discuss.
Sarah Ellis: It is nobody’s bucket listing.
Helen Tupper: It is like this random profession bucket listing, however like, it is issues like, it is simply one thing that I feel we’ll be actually happy with for a lot of, a few years to come back. And I am very trying ahead to doing.
Sarah Ellis: A few of that stuff collectively.
Helen Tupper: And we’ve not. We’ve not been to the US collectively, so I feel that’ll be a brand new. A brand new little factor for us to do. So that’s my excessive. Do you need to do yours?
Sarah Ellis: Oh, I had the identical.
Helen Tupper: I did too.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had, as I may say additionally as a result of I feel these issues are stretching for us. So such as you stated, it is issues that we have not completed earlier than. It is new relationships. It will be sort of discovering our method with new communities. So I am trying ahead to it, but in addition with like, a bit of little bit of apprehension. And I do know it can positively be form of, you recognize, we speak about like, consolation problem, braveness zone. Positively like braveness zone stuff for me as a result of, you recognize, generally we speak about our books with communities the place they’re already on board, and it is superb. And everybody’s like, sure, simply assist me be taught. And we already imagine you are good at what you do. So we simply need. We simply need your concepts. Whereas this will probably be individuals who’ve by no means heard of us earlier than and by no means heard of squiggly careers. I feel that is a extremely good stress check and you will get totally different questions. So I form of like figuring out that I’ve obtained one thing already within the yr that is going to form of drive me to be a little bit of a newbie and have these difficult moments. What did you need to keep away from? This feels a bit unfavorable to complete on. Perhaps we’ll say one thing else on the finish.
Helen Tupper: Merry Christmas.
Sarah Ellis: Completely satisfied New 12 months.
Helen Tupper: My keep away from is a little bit of a bizarre one. I need to keep away from saying sure. Sure. With out checking first. So I. And so let me clarify.
Sarah Ellis: I feel you have obtained higher at this. I am stunned by that.
Helen Tupper: Are you aware what, although? I nonetheless doing it. I am nonetheless. So perhaps I’ve obtained higher. In order that’s good. I should not beat myself up about it. However I used to simply say sure to every part as a result of I need to do every part and I like doing various things. So I say sure to every part and Sarah thinks I’ve obtained higher. However I’ve nonetheless seen generally I say sure and it may be to something. It may be to a night out and I do not take into consideration the affect on my different half who has to come back house early in order that I can try this, or it may be a sure to a name. And I do not consider the affect on the one that manages my diary, who then has to attempt to match that in. And I feel it’s. It is a bit of bit egocentric and I do not imply to. I actually do not imply to be. It comes from a spot that I need. I need to converse to that particular person. I need to go discover it.
Sarah Ellis: I feel it comes from a spot of power and pleasure.
Helen Tupper: Yeah. Yeah. I am not attempting to be egocentric, however I do assume I am simply turning into. I’m able to do all of the issues that I need to do due to the assist that I’ve obtained round me. And the very last thing that I need to do is to say sure is.
Sarah Ellis: These folks to go away.
Helen Tupper: Yeah. Yeah. I imply that. I wasn’t eager about that, Sarah. That is dramatic.
Sarah Ellis: I used to be, like, imagining what occurred if the assist system, like, left you, like, we’re out, Helen.
Helen Tupper: We’re out. However I simply. I do not need to. I do not need what I’m saying sure to. To Trigger them issues, principally. I simply need to try this. And it does not imply that I would not say sure. I feel I’d simply ask first. I’d say, look, I actually need to do that. Is it okay? Whereas a number of the time I am going, and I’ve stated sure to this, now are you able to. And it is simply, I simply need to. I do not need to try this.
Sarah Ellis: I do not need to put it within the feedback. It is sort of the, it is the sure sense cheque. Yeah, perhaps you simply must have like a phrase, the sure sense cheque. Simply earlier than I say sure to this, I am simply going to sense cheque it with associate Sarah in our group, another person in our, you recognize, similar to, perhaps with me generally you could be like, let me see. Really, to be honest, now you have stated that I am like, you do typically go away me voice notes with belongings you’ve already dedicated to or dedicated us to, which regularly begin with, I hope it is okay, I’ve agreed. It is all the time that. It is like, I hope it is okay, I’ve agreed to. And I am a bit like, effectively, what am I going to say? Like, no. Which more often than not I am like, it is nice. My keep away from, truly is a extremely particular one. I feel you and I’ve recurring conversations about issues that we discover irritating the place we’re principally complaining, actually. And people issues typically, like occur a bit. It is the identical dialog like, you recognize, this, that is feeling irritating once more. And also you get to the purpose, I feel with a few of these the place truly that does begin to really feel fairly demotivating or I begin to get form of both annoyed with myself or with different folks that I am like, oh, nonetheless speaking about this and nothing’s. Nothing’s modified. And I really feel like for these recurring conversations, which truly I feel are fairly straightforward to identify, you recognize, they’re all the time like ache factors or acquainted frustrations we generally name them. And so one of many issues that I form of need to keep away from subsequent yr is simply having these chats. And generally I feel you and I want it as a result of we’ve got to get stuff out of our system. You and I’ve to make use of one another to get stuff out of our system. In any other case I do not assume we might survive. I am like, there are moments the place it is like, simply get stuff out of the system. However I do assume the place it is like the identical stuff out of the system repeatedly. I form of need you and I to Be like, okay, however you recognize, we’ve got good concepts, we’re good drawback solvers, we’re inventive in how we predict. Let’s put our heads collectively and go, effectively, what may we do about this? Or let’s ask the group. , it is not all the time gotta be us. We are able to contain different folks in it. I feel generally once more we find yourself being a bottleneck as a result of perhaps we assume like we, we have to give you an answer to this. And so yeah, I used to be like, that is, I do not need to finish subsequent yr and be like, oh, I’ve simply talked.
Helen Tupper: We have.
Sarah Ellis: The issues that we’re getting out of the system are the identical as they have been final yr. In the event that they’re new issues, that is nice.
Helen Tupper: We should always write down, we must always, we must always simply write down what are some acquainted frustrations. So simply, simply write them down and, and similar to you want save them, save them someplace after which subsequent yr, oh, have you learnt what? We should always write them down after which we must always put them within the diary after which for like tenth December 2026 and we ought to be like, have we solved these or have we nonetheless obtained the identical frustrations?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, as a result of we may simply do it. In all probability not everybody must see these, however you and I’ve our personal group channel.
Helen Tupper: Little secret chat.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I imply it is a chat that no person else needs to ever be a part of. However we may simply put them in there and be like, effectively, listed below are the acquainted frustrations from this yr. And I truly assume equally what, you recognize, like after we get collectively. As a result of we often get, we do see one another sometimes. We may all the time have that as like an agenda merchandise for after we’re collectively. Oh, let’s simply return to the acquainted frustrations. How irritating do they at the moment really feel? Out of 10 have we made any progress? What’s stopping us if we have not? And I additionally assume, I hate the thought of that also being true in a yr’s time. Now you have stated that if we write it down there is no such thing as a method that I feel it’s acceptable for that to be true in 12 months time.
Helen Tupper: You’d look forward.
Sarah Ellis: I’d stay with myself.
Helen Tupper: I’ve checked. Yeah, I do know you’ll, however that is my worst factor. It is not a foul factor. So we even have another questions that we thought we are going to placed on the pod sheet. So you possibly can in all probability.
Sarah Ellis: Sufficient of us speaking about these.
Helen Tupper: So it has been. It’s. That is why I am saying firstly prefer it’s very helpful to speak about this in fairly a excessive reflective mode. So we’ll put the questions that we have answered on the pod sheet and another ones which we have not shared our responses however we additionally discovered very helpful. So I discussed firstly the pod sheet you may get from our web site. Should you simply go to amazingif.com and the podcast web page, you may discover all of our episodes. There’s and each one of many episodes has a one web page you could obtain that summarises it and should you ever cannot discover it, simply e mail us helenand sarahquigglycareers.com so thanks a lot for listening. And we have two extra episodes left this yr. It is a half one and a component two. So Sarah and I are Squiggly profession traits for 2026. We have got 10 traits and we’re speaking about what the development is, the way it would possibly have an effect on you and your growth and what you are able to do about it firstly of subsequent yr to set your self up for achievement. However that’s every part for at present, everyone. Take care.
Sarah Ellis: Bye for now.
