00:00: Introduction with Georgie Holt, CEO at FlightStory
00:17: Georgie’s shell shedding second as a CEO – choices
07:21: What’s kill or proceed? And why is it so troublesome.
18:41: One piece of studying recommendation
Sarah Ellis: Georgie, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us right now on the Squiggly Careers podcast. I am actually trying ahead to our dialog collectively.
Georgie Holt: Thanks a lot for having me. I am delighted to be right here.
Sarah Ellis: So we’re going to dive straight in and we attempt to use all the ocean lobster like puns that we are able to give you. So prepare for a few of these right now. We might like to know a bit a couple of shell shedding second that you’ve got had as a CEO and maybe as a part of sharing that, you might additionally, only for our listeners who maybe do not know, simply describe the corporate that you are the CEO of. And provides us an instance of a second that is felt onerous, you felt weak, perhaps even a bit jelly, like, like our pal the lobster will get when it sheds its shell. However that you simply do mirror on and really feel it was value it. I grew again larger, higher. I discovered extra on account of that shell shedding second.
Georgie Holt: Completely. I feel this can be a nice idea and I like a pun. So that you’re talking my love language with puns. So I am Georgie Holt, I am the CEO of FlightStory. We’re a media and funding firm based by Stephen Bartlett. Our mission and imaginative and prescient on the planet is to scale creator led manufacturers, what we name human IP. We actually imagine that the way forward for media is creator led. So once we take a look at our enterprise, we take into consideration constructing the way forward for media for the creator age. And what we imply by that’s we’re in an enormous transition now in media that we’re shifting away from legacy establishments and shifting in the direction of creators as the most important IP within the business. And that particular person human beings now have the chance to construct main media firms and switch the content material they make into firms. And we’ve got the in all probability one of many highest profile blueprints on the planet, which is Stephen Bartlett and the Diary of the CEO. Once more, a tremendous creator. He is constructed an unbelievable creator led model, media model, flagship ip and we need to do this for different creators as a result of we imagine that the human tales that they convey to media and that the way in which that there’s a enormous type of human lens to the work that they do truly evokes a number of progress in particular person folks and truly it is so fascinating.
Sarah Ellis: So we interviewed Stephen once we began our podcast, which is sort of a very long time in the past now as a result of we’re type of over 500 episodes in each week and he talked about adaptability. So at the moment we acquired type of people that we thought had been doing fascinating work and that is earlier than he was form of fairly the famous person that he’s right now, however not that completely different, you realize.
Georgie Holt: Proper.
Sarah Ellis: By way of like simply speaking a bit about desirous to be actually open and actually versatile. And I feel to your level, what people do that’s at all times onerous for firms to do is you join at a form of a one to at least one in a one to at least one approach. And we, like Helen and I, at all times proceed to be stunned once we take heed to our podcasts which are probably the most listened to. They’re usually the place Helen and I’ve had a tough time or one thing’s gone improper. And that is as a result of persons are like, oh, it is the, it is the human tales. Proper. So I can see why, why you form of, you do what you do. It have to be. It is a tremendous, wonderful to see each his development, but in addition what you are doing with different manufacturers. So for you in your position as a CEO and also you’re in an organization that’s rising shortly, that you simply do have to be actually adaptable. And it is virtually as you described, you’re setting the blueprint versus like following a blueprint from your individual perspective. Like what feels onerous, what looks like these shell shedding moments the place you do assume, oh, like deep breath, you are feeling fairly weak. You are in all probability pondering, I’ve simply not performed this earlier than, or I do not know the reply as a result of I at all times assume it is reassuring to know that everyone has these moments.
Georgie Holt: It is so fascinating that you simply’re asking me this query now, as a result of it is truly one thing I have been pondering actually deeply about for the previous few weeks and I truly got here to a private realisation on it, which has been enormously useful to me and I’m wondering if it is perhaps useful to others, is there is a large distinction between a good suggestion and a straightforward thought. And what I realised and what I’ve deeply come to know over the past two years, notably working on this atmosphere once more, constructing a blueprint, attempting to be a pioneer, breaking new floor, is that I feel we have to a spot the place maybe we expect the straightforward concepts are good, that one thing ought to be a good suggestion is one thing that is simple and also you’re in a move state and every part is shifting within the path that you simply thought it was going to and also you’re assembly only a few obstacles in your path and also you’re shifting shortly in the direction of that purpose or that concept coming to life. And I truly assume that is a sign of a straightforward thought. And what I’ve come to Realise and what I discuss to my staff about lots is that a good suggestion is actually onerous as a result of there aren’t that many. And we are saying, you realize, there aren’t that many good concepts anymore, or truly, how do you discover a good suggestion? And once we get a sign that one thing is tough, that we have hit an impediment, a blocker, a paper wall, as we name them in our enterprise, that almost all partitions are made from paper. In the event you ask the appropriate questions, you’re employed with them. Sufficient urgency and an enormous bias for motion that they’re made from paper. There are very, only a few no’s on the planet or very, only a few type of concrete partitions. Is that a good suggestion is actually, actually onerous? And we’re attempting to educate ourselves. I’ve actually coached myself over time. And attempting to educate my staff is when it will get onerous, it means it is good. It doesn’t imply it is unhealthy. And once we hit these onerous roadblocks and we push in opposition to these troublesome moments, the concept is infinitely higher on the opposite aspect, it is even higher than we imagined as a result of it was onerous. So I feel once I take into consideration shell shedding, that has been an enormous, pivotal realisation for me, and I’ve known as it many various issues. Folks name it failure. We speak about failure lots in our enterprise. They speak about experimentation, we speak about experimentation lots in our enterprise. However I’ve truly actually come to grasp that the nice issues are very onerous and it’s what makes them good and what makes them infinitely higher is the onerous issues that you simply hit on the way in which there. Really easy concepts aren’t good concepts. In my, truly my shell shedding, I feel I’ve acquired very snug with holding tensions and truths that may be fully reverse on the similar time. And getting to grasp that good equals onerous, which is consideration, that two truths are evident on the similar time.
Sarah Ellis: That is actually fascinating. How are you aware? So for those who’re form of engaged on that speculation that good concepts truly, you count on them, you count on them to really feel uncomfortable, you count on them to really feel onerous. And I think one other stress that you could must grapple with is when do you retain going and when do you let it go? As a result of there are additionally moments the place as a CEO, you make calls to cease one thing or to, you realize, and that giving up is not a nasty factor. Generally you assume like, we did assume this was a good suggestion. You in all probability invested a while, some vitality, perhaps some cash into one thing. However an enormous a part of a CEO is prioritising and form of making these calls. And for those who’re for those who’re form of shifting to this sense of, like, I feel beforehand you might need been like, oh, it feels too onerous. Effectively, that is the sign to surrender and to form of let it go. However what we’re saying is, nicely, no, truly, that may imply. Really, it will be one thing good. We form of must persevere. What helps you. What lets you form of determine that out?
Georgie Holt: Gosh, that is an incredible query. We name it the killer.
Sarah Ellis: It is fairly a tough query.
Georgie Holt: It is an incredible query. And I will attempt to actually assume. Be considerate about how I reply it. We name it the kill or proceed. And one of many nice alternatives and the nice challenges in our firm is attending to kill or proceed quicker than ever earlier than. So good equals onerous is essential. Good equals too onerous. And too onerous within the improper path is just not use of time. And what we’ve got gotten to when it comes to how we decide that is getting extraordinarily centered on our sense of path. The place are we going? What’s our imaginative and prescient? What’s our mission? What are our targets? And is this concept, by means of all of the proof, knowledge, and analysis, we’ve got an concept that we imagine goes to get us to one in all these targets. And if the reply is sure and continues to be sure, we proceed with this concept. If the reply by means of knowledge. As a result of we experiment lots. And the early knowledge alerts that we’re getting from this concept that maybe it’s not going to get us to one in all our main targets and obtain that imaginative and prescient and mission that we’ve got, it ought to be stopped and we must always kill. And what we need to do within the firm is that the kills or the losses really feel like wins. As a result of the quicker you kill one thing, the extra you could focus in your main targets and drivers or different concepts that may speed up that. And it’s so essential, and it is one thing that may be a faith in our firm, that failure is intrinsic to our outcomes and our means to succeed. So we’re very snug with failure in our firm. We encourage folks to fail lots. We encourage folks to experiment lots. But when we carry on failing on an thought that’s good and onerous, however the proof is beginning to present it is not going to attain the first purpose that we’ve got. And we’ve got eight main targets that we need to obtain within the firm within the subsequent 5 years. And we spent six months on that piece of labor. It was 130. Slide deck. Imagine it or not, if it is beginning to give us alerts that it is not going to ship a kind of targets, even when we believed it might. We kill, and the quicker we kill, the higher. And giving these frameworks to kill and proceed is vital in your corporation, but in addition the one cause you do that’s to having very clear targets about the place you need to get to. So it is without doubt one of the best strategic challenges, and I feel one of the crucial thrilling journeys that I’m going on on this management journey is how are you aware when to say cease?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Georgie Holt: It’s a fixed, iterative studying technique of placing in frameworks, pondering from first ideas. As a pacesetter and as a CEO or anybody who needs to go on that journey, getting your first ideas in place and rationalising and arguing and debating from these first ideas is such an essential piece of labor, which is, who am I when nobody is trying? Who am I in extraordinarily troublesome moments the place vital choices have to be made in a short time, when we do not have the entire info? And I am solely 50% certain on a method or one other, going again to your set of first ideas of who would I be if nobody was trying? Who would I be if I had time? Who would I be if I used to be the perfect model and most brave model of myself on this second in time? Although all of my instincts, I am scared, I do not know what the appropriate reply is, however what would probably the most brave model of me do? That could be a query and a sign of, like, what are my first ideas and the way do I function in a second? Will allow you to make quicker, higher choices within the second. Kill the continued choices. What’s good, what’s onerous versus what truly is taking us within the improper path. And that, actually, is a number of the proof that almost all leaders must work on is, what are my first ideas and am I very clear with others about what they’re?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah. Listening to you, what actually strikes me is I feel you have got created a type of a construction, a set of programs and a construction that helps you and the corporate with shell shedding moments. So moderately than the shell shedding choices, or ought to we do extra of this or much less of this, feeling subjective or judgmental in a approach that may really feel complicated. And persons are form of unsure what’s proper or what’s improper or it simply feels prefer it relies on how the CEO is feeling that day. You already know, we have in all probability all been there the place, you realize, it is such as you’re by no means fairly certain what your supervisor goes to say. My type of sense of what you are describing is you have labored actually onerous to create a number of readability each for your self however and for different folks by means of asking these powerful questions, writing issues down like, what will we use as a filter for our determination making that is not identical to how I occur to really feel about one thing and I am inquisitive about who helps you. Georgie. So when it feels actually onerous and being a CEO can really feel fairly lonely, I feel from speaking to some of the CEOs and you may’t at all times essentially have each dialog form of inside an organization, you usually do want help elsewhere. What does that appear to be for you? So that you’re in the midst of a shell shedding second and you are like, that is feeling powerful and uncomfortable. The place do you go? What helps you? Who helps you?
Georgie Holt: Can I be actually sincere?
Sarah Ellis: In fact.
Georgie Holt: I’m going to myself.
Sarah Ellis: Attention-grabbing.
Georgie Holt: And it is, it is not the appropriate reply. Generally it is, you realize, I, there are, there are folks in my cellular phone that I name and there is folks which have been enormously and constructively useful to me in troublesome moments. What I love to do, as a result of I like to consider working from a set of first ideas that, you realize, I have been working for 25 years of a life, for 46 years that I’ve labored actually onerous on attempting to grasp who I’m in troublesome moments and at midnight and when issues are terribly powerful, which they do are inclined to get generally, who am I? And due to this fact I very often draw on myself in these moments. And I do not hear many ladies say this, and I do not know whether or not it, it is have having a robust sense of self value or a way having what folks may, I do not know, type of begin to say that, you realize, is perhaps extra egotistical, I do not know. But it surely looks like an uncommon factor for a girl to say. And it is as a result of I like to grasp how I take into consideration one thing earlier than I might even go and ask a query of any person else and say I’ve acquired to this determination or I feel that is the place I’m with this second of the shell shedding. And does that sound like a call I might make or does it sound like one thing that that is the appropriate as you realize, me and who I’m as a human being, am I in the appropriate path? Am I doing one thing that feels terribly completely different to the person who you realize, I’m, or does this really feel like one thing I might do and due to this fact problem me that if this can be a good factor to do, although it is one thing I deeply imagine is aligned to what I imagine in, however I’ve positively additionally discovered over time is definitely opening your thoughts to info coming in if you want it most and virtually asking for it internally, externally, it would arrive. And in reality, one thing, somebody shared a quote with me yesterday and it was so related to what we had been speaking about right now and it actually helped me meant what we had been saying on this assembly. I am like, so once more, it is one other sign, like if I simply open my thoughts and I am acutely aware that I am in search of a solution, but it surely’s not essentially one thing that I can get to extraordinarily shortly or it is taking me a little bit bit longer than I assumed beforehand. It does arrive. And the quote was, “it is on you to get you to the place you need to be”. And I used to be fascinated about my shell shedding moments and I assumed, gosh, that basically does solidify how I give it some thought. It is on you to get you to the place you need to be. And I feel if there was a approach that I thought of shell shedding, it might be, I am shedding the shell as a result of it is. As a result of it is the place I must go subsequent. And it is on me to grasp what the shell shedding second is creating when it comes to my frameworks, my first ideas. What have I discovered by means of this alteration or this transition? As a result of I am attending to the place I have to be and due to this fact it’s uncomfortable and I’m going to really feel uncovered, however it’s on me and I ought to have a good time that feeling and get actually excited and energised by the uncomfortable alerts. And I feel that we, over time, by means of habituation, by means of tradition, by means of the way in which that we’re presently residing our lives, that we search consolation. And luxury is really easy. It is really easy going again to love, is that this a good suggestion or a straightforward thought? It is really easy to be snug truly.
Sarah Ellis: Simply simply listening to you and form of the way in which that you simply method issues round being uncomfortable. We had been speaking earlier than, there’s some actually fascinating analysis that, as you mentioned, we affiliate being uncomfortable with, I get this improper or I ought to attempt to get again to consolation, so I am uncomfortable. So that is the improper state. And the appropriate state is. And the reassuring state is being snug. What if we rewired our pondering to, oh, I am uncomfortable, I am in a shell shedding second. Oh, and that is, that is nice as a result of truly I am being a newbie, I am doing issues I’ve not performed earlier than, I’m going to be higher due to this. And I Simply assume it is a very completely different start line and truly one thing I want I might identified a bit earlier, in all probability in my profession, as a result of I bear in mind having a few of these moments, you realize, the place your. Your studying curve is so steep and virtually. I had one explicit job the place my studying curve was actually steep and I needed to surrender. I bear in mind speaking to my director and saying, as a result of I might moved internally at Sainsbury’s, and I used to be like, this can be a unhealthy thought. I assumed I might be capable to switch my abilities into this staff. I do not really feel like I am doing an excellent job. You already know, that studying curve was actually steep. I can see all of the issues I am getting improper. And thank goodness for good bosses alongside the way in which. She mentioned to me, no, you are not. You are doing an incredible job. And naturally the educational curve’s steep since you’ve not performed it earlier than. The truth that I used to be feeling so uncomfortable was positively a. Effectively, that is inevitable as a result of there’s simply a lot to be taught. And really, do not surrender now as a result of then you definately’re not going to get the rewards of all that studying that you have performed. So we’re coming to the tip, Georgie, and we at all times end with the identical query. What’s one piece of recommendation that you simply wish to depart our listeners with? In the event that they need to be taught extra at work, they need to discover extra alternatives. It is perhaps one thing you have mentioned right now that already that you simply simply need to reinforce. You are like, that is the one factor I need folks to recollect. Or it equally could possibly be simply one thing that you simply reside by that you simply discover actually useful.
Georgie Holt: There’s two issues, and one goes again to that concept of actually understanding the distinction between a straightforward thought and a good suggestion. And good concepts are onerous. That is why there aren’t that a lot of them. And getting snug. In the event you’re getting alerts that that is troublesome, however it’s positively going within the path we need to take this firm, this mission, this imaginative and prescient, this technique, is that get superb on the distinction between good concepts and simple concepts. And the opposite factor that I’ve acquired very invested into due to the work that we have been doing with one in all our creators, Maggie Sellers, Ream on Sizzling Sensible Wealthy, is that she has this type of thought that you simply write your self love notes, which is an fascinating expertise, truly, is that you simply. It may be constructive affirmations. It may be phrases and phrases that perhaps have resonated with you right now. And notably you have acquired a sign that that was an essential factor so that you can hear, and for no matter cause that has, like, gone right into a layer of your unconscious that I wanted to listen to that right now is to begin to write these issues down. And she or he calls them love notes, which I simply adore a lot as a result of it feels that it is. It is a love letter to your self, that you simply’re penning this prolonged love letter by means of the remainder of your skilled and private life, that each one of those notes and concepts are going to begin to be constructed right into a type of a way of appreciation and gratitude of how far you’re progressing and the way a lot work you’re doing to develop into the perfect chief you’ll be able to develop into, probably the most brave model of your self.
Sarah Ellis: Georgie, thanks a lot. I do know our listeners and I actually actually appreciated your examples, your tales, but in addition simply being actually sincere about what’s working for you, you being a piece in progress and I simply liked listening to the way you carry that to life form of each day. It has been actually inspiring. Thanks a lot.
Georgie Holt: Thanks, Sarah. And once more, I mentioned this earlier than we began, however thanks for creating an area like this. It is extraordinarily essential that we’re capable of hear these tales, these tales of human progress that hopefully, in a really small approach, perhaps go and assist somebody progress by means of one thing that they’re discovering troublesome.
